From Winning 7 Formula 1 Championships To Printing 3D Batteries

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We're back.

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I'm excited to announce the return of the Miami Tech Mod.

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For all the loyalist members that I've run into over the last year and a half, your peer permission worked.

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You'll notice that I'm a few co-ho short, Will's heads down building digitoys.

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Ryan has moved up to Charlottesville, Virginia, where he accepted a role at his mama moderate UVA as head of student entrepreneurship.

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And Caesar recently accepted a role at an Roman on their government relations team.

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I'm proud of the three of them, and I will miss them dearly.

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But in the meantime, I'll carry on the torch.

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I'm excited to continue to bring you the stories of local founders, tech professionals, and investors that are building and shaping the future of Miami Tech.

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I hope you'll listen in.

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Thanks for having me.

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Thanks.

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I feel like it's only fitting as we relaunch the podcast to have a Miami native as our first guest, which I'm very excited about.

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And uh you are now the co-founder of Material, which I'm excited to kind of dive into.

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But as I was digging into your background, which is fascinating, I there were so many things about your path that I think are important for our listeners to know and to just hear your journey.

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And I felt like so many times in your career you were just really persistent when you were told no, and you just, you know, didn't take that for an answer.

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And that's a kind of a sign of a great founder.

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So I would love to kind of have a start at the beginning of your career.

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Because I believe you kind of set one of your career goals around like eight years old.

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Is that correct?

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Yeah, yeah, that's definitely correct.

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Um really, I so I grew up in South Florida, as you know.

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Um some of my earliest days that I remember were actually spent around Homestead Miami Speedway.

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So I was kind of enthralled with cars.

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And uh very early age, I basically said, like, I want to design race cars.

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You know, it was it was yeah, probably eight or nine years old.

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And pretty quickly that kind of turned me towards Formula One.

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Uh it was kind of uh back in the day, there's a uh channel on TV called Speed Vision where uh I'd end up, I don't know, I wasn't a good sleeper when I was a child, so I'd wake up in the middle of the night, turn on the television, and I see race cars at like three or four in the morning.

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It took me a long time to realize that they were just on the other side of the world, uh, and that was live, and I was just, you know, uh very excited and watching that.

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So Formula One was like a goal of mine from an early age, and it was kind of dovetailed by really Homestead Miami Speedway being um built in the early 90s and you know, me going there so frequently.

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And it was your dad who kind of would you say got you into yeah.

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So he was a track photographer at at Homestead, um, really from its inception until probably like mid-2000s.

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Um, so he'd go down there all the time.

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There'd be testing, uh, actual races, everything in between.

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And uh so yeah, I'd kind of like on the day, take your son to work day type thing, he'd take me down there, and I'd basically sit in the car and just kind of wait.

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Uh, but occasionally I'd hop out in the paddock and I'd see like Michael Andretti or Al Anser Jr., these indie car legends, and and uh get to see the cars and just kind of like poke around.

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And you know, as a kid, that's like the coolest thing, you know.

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They're so loud, right?

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It's so like absurdly loud, but I was just really excited by like how fast and amazing they were.

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And um basically I wanted to be a race car driver.

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I was like, dad, I don't want to be a race car driver.

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And uh he he said that you know that was a very expensive proposition for the family.

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Um, but he said, you know, pretty early, like, why don't you just take up engineering and then you can design a race car?

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So that's kind of what uh changed my path there at an early age, and I really just stuck with it the whole time.

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And then so you went to UM for mechanical engineering?

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That's right.

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I did undergrad at UM uh mechanical engineering.

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I graduated in 2010.

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And uh so that was right after the financial crisis.

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I think it was kind of in the middle of it, honestly, for us as students.

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So when I was like trying to get internships, let's say 2008, 2009, there's nothing uh to be had in the auto industry.

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But um yeah, I just kind of kept sending those resumes out and uh kept having this dream of designing cars or you know, race cars at some point and and kind of persevered through it.

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And I was able to get a job.

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My first job actually wasn't until January 2011.

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You can see how long it took for the economy to kind of re rebound uh for with Honda RD.

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So I ended up moving to uh outside of Columbus, Ohio for that first job.

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Okay, so Miami boy in Ohio.

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Yeah.

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Culture shock a bit.

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I remember getting like I don't know if it was for my recruit the recruiting trip.

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I did like an interview trip, but it could have been when I finally moved there.

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In January of all months.

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January.

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Yeah, I show up and the snow is at my hip, and you know, I'm six feet tall, oh six one, and and like at my hip.

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So you can imagine like how high the snow is, freezing.

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And I was like, this is not what I signed up for, you know.

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Learning how to drive in the snow, that was a that was a new experience.

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I'd never done that before.

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Oh yeah.

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I yeah, I the only places outside of Miami I've lived are Boston and Chicago, and I definitely crashed my car in this because of ice on the highway once.

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Um okay, so you end up in Honda.

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Yeah.

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And then you were, from what I understand, trying to get into their you know, Formula One team.

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I was, I was uh I I'll call this looking back at it a bit lowbrow, but when I was looking at where I was gonna find my first job, I was just focusing on the companies that I knew had a relationship or history in Formula One only, uh and in the US, Honda, uh, and at the time I guess Toyota um were the only ones that had that relationship that were that were either active or interactive in F1.

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So I had this idea that, like, hey, I really I'm gonna go uh at Honda, my first job was designing engines.

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So I'm like, hey, I'm an engine designer for Honda road cars.

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And if for some reason the stars align and they go back to Formula One and they go as an engine supplier, I'm gonna raise my hand and I'm gonna say, I'm I'm gonna design engines for you, send me to Japan and work on that.

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So I had that in the back of my head as soon as from day one at Honda, I always knew that I would try to get into their motorsport group from there.

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Yeah.

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And you were from what I understand, like sending decks to people you had no no business sending decks to?

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Oh boy.

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Yeah.

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I did some research.

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You sure did.

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Uh so yeah, I guess I was pretty bored doing I wasn't bored, I was learning a lot, but I was in over my head, and and honestly, um there was there was all this like intake of just like learning how to be an engineer on one side, and then the other side I had this like my burning passion to work on race cars or work on any of the special motorsport projects that some of the um more privileged engineers in the office got to work on.

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So Honda's really famous for kind of uh interconnecting road car and motorsport programs.

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Uh they'll pull engineers from both, um, pulling them back and forth over the line essentially.

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So there was a lot of people in my office that either had experience in motorsport, um, were working on current projects.

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They're in our in my in our passenger car office for the motorsport teams or Honda Racing.

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So I was like, I saw it, and it's kind of like you look over the cubicle and you see the guy having a lot of fun, and you're like so close, but so far.

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Right.

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And then, you know, so so I started, okay.

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Well, all the the J staff, as we called it, all the Japanese folks, they'd stay late and work on various uh semi-nefarious projects.

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And and I um I started asking them, like, hey, I had this idea, you know.

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Um basically I was privileged with the information that Honda was going to go downsize turbo hybrid, which were like um basically making smaller engines that were turbocharged and also have electrically powered cars or you know, hybrids that we know today.

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And this is in 2011 or 2012.

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And I looked at that and I looked at the Formula One rule set that just came out for 2014.

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I was like, huh, they're pretty similar.

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So why don't I make a couple decks saying like, hey, Honda should re-enter F1?

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At the time I thought I was uh I was ahead of the game, but um it seems like they you know they had the same ideas.

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So I'd send some decks to like the head of Honda Racing Japan, and I'd get a nice like broken English email response like Gabson, this is if we re-enter Formula One, this is how we will do it, you know, as engine supplier and like stay in touch, you know, gambate or something.

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And uh pretty soon, yeah, no, Honda re-enters F1 and and I'm sitting there in my seat in ED1 in engine design, like holy crap! Like my thought in the back of my head when I took this job actually is happening.

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Like Honda's going to F1, and I want to go, I want to go play with F1 cars too.

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Yeah, but then you get told.

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Uh yeah.

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Um, so I tell my boss, I'm like, hey, hey, like uh now's time to send me an OAP, send me to Japan.

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I can go work on this, and I can come back and bring you special skills I learned in Japan.

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And he boped me on the head, and he was like, uh, you know, you need to be here like two decades before we'd ever think about sending you there.

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And uh yeah, I really that was a that was a tough pill to swallow because I'm sitting here thinking like this is my shot, um, my only shot as an American to do that.

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Um I had done so much research prior of like how Americans entered Formula One, it's very rare.

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Uh, you know, one or two a team, and there's only there was 10 teams up until uh I guess this year.

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Um so you can imagine it's not very many people get to do this.

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And uh when he told me no, I was I was devastated.

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So um I took the weekend and I I quit my job on Monday.

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Yeah.

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Uh I told him that I would be a Formula One engineer in a year's time.

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And uh yeah, I just quit my job.

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Okay.

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Holy crap.

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Okay, so then for you know, you decide over a weekend to quit your job, and then what?

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Yeah, uh I sold everything I owned.

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I had a I had a cool NSX sports car at the time, which was a fun, uh, fun little runabout.

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And uh basically I I packed up uh everything I owned into like four suitcases, and um I set off to get a master's in the UK at a school called Oxford Brooks um in motorsport engineering.

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It's basically applied mechanical engineering.

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Um and the hope was hey, I'm gonna go to Motorsport Valley there in the UK.

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In the off chance that I'm good enough, and I'm at least on their doorstep of all the F1 teams, eight out of the 10, uh well, probably seven out of the ten, are right there within 50 miles, basically, where the school was.

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So wow.

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So I was like, hey, well, what better shot than than just going there, being on the doorstep, going to one of the schools that's a feeder school of these teams, and try my luck.

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So so I did that.

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Um yeah, I needed to scrounge up like every nickel or dime I could get.

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So I was I was like selling furniture, selling cars, like you want some shoes, sold those two, and I ended up like pulling together, I don't know, it was like probably like 40 grand cash to pay for school or at least to have cash for the year.

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And uh that um yeah, I just went straight to England.

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Yeah.

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And how big are like the class?

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How what was your graduating class?

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My master's program, and there was two master's programs at Oxford Brooks, which is it was actually a really good school.

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Um my program was probably 20, and then the other one, uh, which was like race engineering or something like that, was another 20 or so.

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Uh and they're mostly international students.

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I would say it's probably like 15% actually from the UK, but the rest were just across the EU, US and Canada, a lot of Canadians, and um, you know, the odd American or two.

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I think there was like probably two or three of us.

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Okay, so yeah, there's 20 of you competing for these very few jobs after graduation.

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And um, you know, England was really cool.

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So that was like my immersion experience.

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It's uh master's programs in the UK are 12 months.

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So in the US, it's two years typically uh to get a master's.

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Um, but it's 12 months straight.

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So uh it's pretty intense.

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Um but I treated school like a job since I'd already worked in industry.

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So nine to five, go to school, come home, do my homework.

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Um, even into the summer, I was just pretty disciplined.

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So if I wasn't working on like schoolwork, I was trying to contact the Formula One team in the area.

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Like, hey, I'm here, this is my master's project idea.

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Do you guys want to support my dissertation?

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This and the other.

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Um, so I treated it really like a job for that year.

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And um I ended up getting support on a master's, uh my master's dissertation for a project which I thought would be interesting to the teams.

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I before I left Honda, I contacted some of our software suppliers that we use for simulation tools.

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And they were like, hey, yeah, I support they one of them had supplied Formula One teams with this software.

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And so I had kind of asked them some questions, like, what are the projects you're working on?

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And he gave me an idea around like um ancillary drives on uh Formula One engine, which is like um on a passenger car would be like your air condition or your water pump or your oil pump, like those things that are driven off the engine.

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And uh so I took that as an idea and I ended up building on it.

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I got support from a company called Cosworth, um, which is an engine supplier, uh tons of experience in Formula One, right there in the Midlands, it wasn't far from where school was.

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And I I started piecing together these these connections and I would do a lot of networking.

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And uh that ended up being really interesting because this master's dissertation I was writing um started to catch the interest of some of the Formula One teams.

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It came up immediately as I have an interview.

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So it kind of acted as a a good way in the door, and then yeah, I kind of had to do the rest at that point.

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Okay, so where do you end up landing after?

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Yeah.

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Um I ended up interviewing with like probably six teams.

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Most of them would reject me immediately because I needed sponsorship, right?

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I'm a foreigner in England.

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Here, I know this is like such a timely topic, right?

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Immigration, uh, it's it's really intriguing to be on the other side of the of the coin.

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Uh being a foreigner there in a country where they kind of don't want you.

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Um so uh really difficult, right?

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Um and I would say the UK's uh foreign immigration policy, especially for non-EU nationals, is very strict.

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So very few teams are willing to sponsor me.

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So they just like after the interview, sorry, can't, you know, can't help you.

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Um good luck with your endeavors and your dreams and all, you know, the so I I wouldn't get anywhere.

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Um I got rejected from like McLaren, uh Chiefs Honda rejected me.

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They were already, you know, even with my experience.

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Yeah, Honda Racing, um, Red Bull, all the teams you could think of, because they just didn't want to sponsor.

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But uh Mercedes had a job opening that popped up.

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Probably I had about a month left on my visa to stay there.

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So this is like the end of my master's, and uh perfect job pops up, uses all the skills that I had learned when I was in industry at Honda.

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Um, it was like future car concept, and I did this interview, and uh it was the hardest, still the hardest interview of my life by far.

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Probably five or six hours straight interview, just uh nuts.

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And uh yeah, I got I got the job the next day.

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And they were cool to sponsor my visa.

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It was like uh yeah, just the stars aligning.

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And I think it was just about perseverance.

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Like I went up until the 11th hour, really, and we were talking like two weeks until I had to leave the country, you know.

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Oh my god.

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And where were they where were you living then?

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Uh Oxford.

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I was in Oxford.

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Oh, they were still in Oxford, okay.

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Yeah, so uh Mercedes Formula One team is based uh about twenty-five miles north in a town called Brackley.

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So it's just like a quick shot up the highway um every day.

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But yeah, I lived in Oxford.

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And then you were with Mercedes how long?

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Uh so seven seasons, yeah.

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Um I uh see, I have seven world championships at Mercedes.

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Is that too shabby?

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No, it's great.

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I drank way too much champagne, as I tell a lot of people.

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I I have no my palate, I have no taste for champagne anymore because every Monday after we won a race, uh bottles would pop at about 10 30, 11 a.m.

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and come get your glass.

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And you know, I mean it gets gets old after a while.

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I hate to say that because I have I have friends all across the grid when I was in F1 that they would have prayed for a podium, much less a win.

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Oh wow.

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And I won like 77% of the races that I was entered in.

00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:51.120
Uh so uh I was on the right team.

00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:54.799
I mean, it's kind of like getting drafted to the Patriots when they were winning Super Bowls, you know.

00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:56.639
I store subject right now.

00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:56.960
Yeah.

00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:00.080
Uh but yeah, amazing times.

00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:06.079
Uh I designed uh just about everything on an F1 car except for suspension and brakes.

00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:11.039
I had uh I had at least detailed design on just about every other piece at some point.

00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.480
Um in an F1 team, you do so many different things.

00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:24.160
Like when you're a design engineer like I was, um you'd be working on a rear wing one year, and then oh hey, you have to do the diffuser, then you have to do the gearbox.

00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:30.640
They'll just put you on these projects, and then you have to ramp up your experience and understanding of like these different parts of a car very quickly.

00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.920
They don't have time for you to like, oh, I need a year to figure this out.

00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:35.200
Like there's no year.

00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:37.200
You have to be an expert, you know, pretty quickly.

00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:41.839
So it's a lot of like um extra time studying, a lot of long hours.

00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:42.319
Yeah.

00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:44.400
So at this point, you're how old?

00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:49.279
I won my first world championship at 25.

00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:50.160
Yeah.

00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:51.039
25.

00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.720
So yeah, three years out of UM, basically.

00:17:55.119 --> 00:18:00.079
Uh fast track through the masters, I hop on the team in the middle of the 2014 season.

00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:00.480
Yeah.

00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:02.400
Won uh won that world championship.

00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:05.920
So that counts as yeah, my first world championship would have been 2014.

00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:06.559
Okay.

00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:12.400
And so you would set this goal from a little kid, and you now you've reached it.

00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:13.839
What happens now?

00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:14.720
Yeah.

00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:17.039
Um was it everything you thought it would be?

00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:21.519
The first championship party will still go down as the best party I've ever been to.

00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:32.079
It was um like I don't know if it kind of like it the only thing I could describe is if it was like going to a movie and seeing like the cr a crazy party in a movie.

00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:34.240
Um some I don't know what movie.

00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:36.480
I'm you know, I'm just but I'm sure everyone's seen it.

00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:40.079
You know, um you see something like that, it's exactly how it was.

00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:56.319
Like to the T, like a crazy band performing, you know, it's me and two, you know, basically it's 2,000 of us total, um, because it's a thousand of us that designed the chassis uh and worked on the car, and then another thousand just did the engine, the powertrain, and uh they were about an hour away from our facility.

00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:02.960
Um, so all in all, it's a large group of people to win one world championship to design uh two identical cars.

00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:04.480
And yeah, that was still the craziest part.

00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:08.319
I just picture like that scene of the hangover where it's like a blur of the colour.

00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:09.920
A blur, total blur.

00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:11.680
Uh, and we had like our trophies.

00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:22.240
I have pictures of me, and I'm in my tuxedo and everyone else's, and we're it's just like one of those nights that like you just ingrained in your head, like, I can't believe I won a world championship.

00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:24.640
Um it's so it's so rare.

00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:30.640
And you know, as an American, like these are things that you can only just see on television, you know.

00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:34.400
Um, this is before Drive to Survive, it's before the F1 movie.

00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:41.279
Um there was only a handful of uh you know Americans on the team, and it would always be just one or two.

00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:45.359
And we all had similar stories, just like absolutely balls to the wall.

00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:46.720
Like I wasn't gonna be denied.

00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:47.839
I had to make it out there.

00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:54.480
And yeah, uh, I was the lucky one that got to win some championships in the process because we were very dominant uh during my time.

00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:56.960
Okay, so then you win now seven.

00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:59.279
It's like the novelty has worn off a bit.

00:19:59.519 --> 00:19:59.839
Yeah.

00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:02.559
And now you're trying to decide what what to do next?

00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:03.279
Yeah.

00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.680
Um COVID kind of helped me make that decision, uh, for sure.

00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:15.359
I I had a permanent contract, so I could have stayed there indefinitely, retired um at Mercedes or any F.

00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:16.240
Is that common?

00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:18.000
Does everybody get just permanent contracts?

00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:19.599
No, it takes a while.

00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:23.680
Um it I didn't get my my permanent contract until probably like five years in.

00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:34.160
So um they like to put people on very limited contracts, one or two year contracts, because they really want to test you out and have the the ability to say, hey, get out of here if you don't if you're not up to snub.

00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:40.079
So what this means is the office is like really only A players at that point.

00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:44.400
It's it's top-tier, you know, I don't know, first round draft picks.

00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:46.240
I'm surrounded by people way smarter than me.

00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:48.160
And that was the case for my entire time there.

00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.039
Uh I'm I'm a man enough to admit it.

00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:54.079
That was I was uh surrounded by very brilliant people.

00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:57.759
Um but yeah, that that was a really it was a big struggle.

00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:06.000
So once I got my permanent contract, I was like, okay, well, I can get a um, you know, permanent residency, get a British passport, that's usually the next step.

00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:08.960
But do I want to like live here forever?

00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:10.720
I kind of struggle with that.

00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:13.200
You know, I'm 5,000 miles away from home.

00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:20.240
I I I'm I like the sun and the beach, and I always yearned to come back here every time we had a chance I could.

00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:21.920
But my job was so fun.

00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:23.359
Like that was not a job.

00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:25.119
That was a pass up.

00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:27.920
Yeah, I mean, kids dream about that.

00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:34.000
Like, still, I know when I when I quit my job, they said that they had 1,500 applicants for it.

00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:40.160
You know, you're talking about people just around the world, they're just throwing their hat in the ring and saying, hey, please, I don't want that role.

00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:42.720
So you can imagine how competitive this is.

00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:59.680
Um but yeah, I I uh was doing well and and just like really didn't want to see, you know, be so far away from the parents and grandparents getting older and and uh then COVID hits, and that kind of accelerated things because uh look, you know, if you guys thought lock.

00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:01.680
Down in the US was tough.

00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:05.440
I mean, it was way, way more draconian in in the UK.

00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:12.240
And that uh as soon as they shut down the office, I was like, hey, I'm gonna go back to Miami uh for a bit.

00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:15.519
You guys let me know when you reopen and I'll I'll fly back over.

00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:20.559
Um so that was uh yeah, it kind of accelerated my desire to come back.

00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:20.799
Yeah.

00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:24.799
And did you think when you were coming to Miami, it was just gonna be a few weeks and you'd be back?

00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:27.279
Yeah, ended up being like four or five months.

00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:31.279
And then basically during that time, I was like, hey, I'm just gonna put my notice in.

00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:36.240
So if you guys reopen, uh your note, my notice uh notice period was six months.

00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:39.279
So I had to give them six months' advance notice that I was leaving.

00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:41.200
It's not like two weeks here in the US.

00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:43.680
Uh six months was low in Formula One.

00:22:43.759 --> 00:23:00.319
Some teams uh a one year's minimum, especially if you're like a senior engineer, leadership, and one, two years, and they'll put you on a year of notice, so they just stick you in the corner and you work on projects that like no one wants to work on, and then a year of gardening leave, so they actually pay you to stay home.

00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:10.160
And there's a reason for this, it's because it's so competitive that like um Formula One is competition engineering, that's that's the way a lot of people call it.

00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:20.319
So you can imagine the best and brightest engineers um are very valuable to uh you know your competitors, so they want to keep you as far away from the development process as possible.

00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:21.359
Yeah, makes sense.

00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:21.759
Yeah.

00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:32.559
Um, but anyways, yeah, came home uh middle COVID and ended up finding a nice landing spot at Rivian, uh, which allowed me to work remote here um in Miami for three years total.

00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:34.400
And Rivian was cool, yeah.

00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:35.599
Really, really cool stuff.

00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:37.359
And what were you focused on there?

00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:39.200
Uh electrical hardware.

00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:49.680
And um, I was working on the low voltage electrical hardware, specifically mechanical design of the R1T, the R1S, and now the Amazon delivery van you guys see everywhere.

00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:51.839
So I worked on all three of those.

00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:53.599
Rivian was, yeah, it was cool.

00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:57.759
Uh it's back in mass production, very different company from Honda.

00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:00.160
Um, still a vehicle, still car, right?

00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:01.839
Steering wheel, four wheels.

00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:12.079
Um, so a lot of the same problems uh, you know, that you'd have in Formula One or you might have in uh passenger car, you know, would come up there.

00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:15.519
The difference is Rivian uh is a very new company.

00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:20.240
So not a lot of structure, not a lot of support, a lot of running around with your hair on fire.

00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:22.720
I think how big was the team at that point?

00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:23.359
Wow.

00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:27.200
Uh Rivian was like 10,000 employees total when I joined.

00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:29.759
And this would have been 2021.

00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:35.039
Uh no, I I joined, I guess, yeah, late 2020 when I moved back.

00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:42.559
So um that so 10,000 employees, and they were hiring 100 people a week at Rivian.

00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:48.880
Uh and my team was split up across the UK, um, East Coast, Central, and West Coast United States.

00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:51.039
I mean, it was it was like a massive team of people.

00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:55.839
We're all working remote basically in design and development at that point because middle of COVID.

00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:57.359
So you know.

00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:00.960
Uh yeah, that was uh fun times for sure.

00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:04.480
And then what made you, you know, decide to leave there?

00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:06.160
Yeah, Rivian was cool.

00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:08.160
I mean, it allowed me to catch up, obviously.

00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:09.680
I was a part of the IPO.

00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:12.319
Um, that was an experience, right?

00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:16.880
Biggest IPO since Facebook, um, you know, at that at that time.

00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:19.680
And uh I think it was because of COVID.

00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:21.359
A lot more champagne all over again.

00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:26.559
Yeah, I mean, for different like at Rivian, you're well compensated.

00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.960
When I was in in Formula One, I mean, I was I was pinching pennies the whole time.

00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:33.519
It was very like I made half of no money.

00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:36.640
Like it was just all for the, as they say, the love of the game, right?

00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:44.480
Um and everyone was really doing it, but also we're on the younger end of of our careers in Formula One, we made no money.

00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:50.720
Uh, you know, two, three roommates, you're driving a car that costs 500 quid, like really tough place to be.

00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:57.039
Um, but the positives seemingly outweighed the negatives in that regard.

00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:58.960
Uh, Rivian was the total opposite.

00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:01.599
I mean, they they paid me well, I made up for lost time.

00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:10.000
Um, and the the thing about Rivian, which was a bit tough, was um I was I was used to so much structure and support in Formula One.

00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:11.279
Everything was automated.

00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:17.680
Uh, there was support engineers upon support engineers to just support me as a designer to do my job as fast as possible.

00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:23.119
Um, so I had like the the procurement office was like ready to go.

00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:34.400
Like it the handoff was so seamless in Formula One that I could design a part on a Tuesday and I could have it on the track Friday morning for you know at a race somewhere around the world, as quick as you can imagine.

00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:46.079
So they'd be 24-7 manufacturing, uh verifying what they manufactured, packaging, might even be assembling something and sending it really around the world to the team wherever we were.

00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:51.119
Um, and that seamless process was just so I mean, it was like magical to work in.

00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:56.000
Like I dream of like the support around that I had as a Formula One engineer.

00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:57.279
Can't find it anywhere.

00:26:57.440 --> 00:26:57.599
Yeah.

00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:00.160
So Rivian was pretty much the total opposite.

00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:05.440
No support, no infrastructure, um, no automation, you know.

00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:08.319
So like you're sitting there just pulling your hair out the whole time.

00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:10.000
Like, why doesn't this work?

00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:11.920
Why doesn't this group talk to that group?

00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:14.559
Why don't you know where my parts are that I just sent to the factory?

00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:21.200
Like it so these teething problems, and what you realize is this company at 10,000 employees, right?

00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:28.960
This is a startup car company, had grown at such a astronomical, like the trajectory was just massive, right?

00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:34.960
Um, that they didn't build those foundational aspects that make a good engineering company.

00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:37.839
They're just like, throw money at it, like more people, more people.

00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:38.880
That'll solve the problem.

00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:40.240
It's not always the case.

00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:43.519
And um, it made the launch really tough.

00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:50.400
I mean, like the factory when we launched R1T or R1S, like the factory was a mess.

00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:56.960
We'd be flying in there every week to this middle of nowhere town in Illinois, um, you know, thousands of us flying into this airport.

00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:01.279
And the airport only has like three gates, and we would just pack it full of Rivian employees.

00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:20.480
So every time I got to Atlanta flying from Miami, hop off my plane, and I know I'm getting towards the the normal Illinois um uh the Bloomington, Illinois, uh like gate because you just see like Rivian bags, and we're all just like funneling in like ants to get on this plane to go save, you know, the world at the factory.

00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:32.400
And um, but it was such an interesting experience because this is like uh, you know, we're working on a first of its kind product, a mass production truck, and now a delivery van that was fully EV, you know, fully electric.

00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:46.160
And um it was uh really ahead of its time in some some ways, and other ways it was a little bit uh too overdesigned um and uh not not really optimized.

00:28:46.240 --> 00:29:02.880
And you start to realize why it's because it was like designed by committee, and and as the company grew in in startup land, keep throwing a little bit of tranches of money at it, um, the CEO, RJ, would would be like, hey, I'm just gonna go hire an engineering service company in the UK and they'll work on this part of the car.

00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:11.440
Well, that group working in certain fashion, and some group in California and a group in um you know Detroit, they had Michigan, Plymouth.

00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:18.559
All these different people are designing different parts of the car, working on different projects, and they're not all really working together.

00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:20.880
And this makes an over-designed car.

00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:29.440
So um probably costs a lot more money than it should, probably weighs a lot more than it should, um, but still very uh very nice vehicle.

00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:32.240
I see them all the time, and I'm always like, hey, how do you like your Rivian?

00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:34.319
And I I like hearing the responses of the owners.

00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:34.960
They love the cars.

00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:36.000
Okay, they do, okay.

00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:36.319
Yeah.

00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.480
I mean, the ones I know, yeah, do too.

00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:41.359
But I'm now that you know that it's a little maybe not.

00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:42.480
How we got there?

00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:46.640
Yeah, how how they got there is is uh uh astounding.

00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:48.319
Yeah, I'm surprised sometimes.

00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:52.720
I'm like, I can't believe that we were able to launch this truck, yeah, or all three of the trucks at once.

00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:54.160
And did that just weigh on you?

00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:56.000
And that's when made you decide to leave?

00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:58.000
Yeah, like the lack of support.

00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:03.839
Support, the anxiety that so I had tons of anxiety when I was in Formula One, right?

00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:06.240
Because there was like a gun to your head the whole time, you know.

00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:09.599
Uh a hundred million people watch every F1 race on average.

00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:11.359
Something breaks fanatics, yeah.

00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:16.160
Yeah, when something breaks for you, like uh it's everyone sees it.

00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:18.079
So it's just like you had to be perfect.

00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:22.880
So that had a a level of anxiety that it produced, you know, for me physically.

00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:28.000
Um, Rivian's anxiety was just because like I don't know what everyone else is doing.

00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:30.799
Like this is this is like too much for me, you know.

00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:44.559
And and uh we're working, um, you know, a lot of us were working remote, some were in different groups, but even my department was spread across three sites and in two say two states besides us working remotely, which was there's tons.

00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:55.680
So like I have people in my own department that were somewhere in Plymouth, Michigan, somewhere remote in the US, somewhere in San Francisco, somewhere in LA, and we're all supposed to be working together on the same like assembly.

00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:58.240
It's an insane proposition, you know.

00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:02.960
Um, and that produced a lot of anxiety, and I think it was just one of the major negatives.

00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:15.279
And so it was kind of like at that time, I started saying, Hey, you know, I want to see what what's going on in the startup space, and um start talking to friends networking and see if I could find another spot to land at.

00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:22.559
One of my classmates at UM, Miles Dotson, uh, I reconnected with him and he tells me, uh, he's like, You gotta meet my buddy Chris.

00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:25.920
He 3D prints batteries, and that's what started this whole thing.

00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:28.160
And this was like the middle of my time at Rivian.

00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:29.759
And so I'm like, oh, okay.

00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:31.359
3D prints batteries, huh?

00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:34.559
Like I start running, like, you know, the gears start moving.

00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:36.000
I tell people this a lot.

00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:41.519
In your head as an engineer, um, you love tools, like tools are my favorite thing, you know.

00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:51.839
Um, a tool to design something faster or optimize a design for that matter, even hand tools or like things that can allow me to do my job better, I want more of.

00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:57.519
So when someone says, like, I have a tool that could print energy storage, like, do you want to hear about it?

00:31:57.680 --> 00:31:58.640
Of course I want to hear about it.

00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:05.839
Because I designed uh I worked on energy storage devices really all across my um my career.

00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:08.079
So like, sure, I want to hear about that.

00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:15.279
I could have I can rattle off the times or I could have used that exact thing in industry, you know, it just wasn't ready or wasn't available then.

00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:33.440
So yeah, we started working uh kind of nights and weekends, and they had this idea that they wanted to make a city car, like a smart car, and they wanted to retrofit the powertrain with a fully electric powertrain and then 3D print a battery pack for it, just for like last mile journeys.

00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:34.559
So I'm the car designer.

00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:41.599
I'm like, well, I can I can help you with like the car design part, but I I was really interested in the 3D printing of batteries.

00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:58.240
After like two or three weeks of like we were working like nights and weekends, just like musing PowerPoint engineering, you know, just like, hey, if we make a battery of this volume, it'll you know, we can get this energy density, and you know, we had this, it was all really theory at that point.

00:32:58.480 --> 00:32:59.440
I kind of stopped everyone.

00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:12.400
I said, like, this is great, but um, we should be commercializing the 3D premium batteries, not like building a smart car where that just has a little bit of this technology, like just focus in on this.

00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:20.480
And it wasn't until we really focused in that things started moving at a fast rate on that kind of spawned material that you know today.

00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:21.119
Yeah, okay.

00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:22.880
So material was founded when exactly.

00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:24.960
Okay.

00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:25.440
Yeah.

00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:26.960
So we founded this.

00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:32.480
Um effectively we went we founded it like uh middle of 2023.

00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:36.720
We went full time basically January 2024.

00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:37.759
Um on it.

00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:44.000
That's after we raised our first pre-seed funding uh and joined uh the Hacks Accelerator uh with SOSV.

00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:48.079
And so the company 3D prints batteries, any form, shape, size.

00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:55.200
Yeah, so we've developed a multimaterial, multimodal 3D printer that can print all parts of a bat a battery.

00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:57.759
So the anode, the cathode, the separator, and the casing.

00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.000
Those are like the four main parts.

00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:05.519
Um and we've made those materials uh 3D printable, and we make the machine around it.

00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:12.159
So um this was a field when Chris, my co-founder, um published his PhD.

00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:16.159
It would have been uh his thesis would have been like 2017 or 2016.

00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:21.920
When he published, he was he was the first person in the world to fully 3D print a lithium-ion battery at that moment.

00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:29.280
Fast forward to today, this is a very well-pursued um uh uh subject in academia.

00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:35.440
There's researchers across the world that are 3D printing batteries, um, 3D printing packs, different materials.

00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:38.880
Um, and they're doing this all for the same reason.

00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:46.239
We're all perplexed with the idea that electrical energy storage has to be constrained to a cylindrical cell, a pouch, or a prismatic cell.

00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:48.639
Like, why do batteries have to be this shape?

00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:54.159
And that's that's really what spawned this, this uh you know, this pursuit.

00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:57.039
And um, I'm really happy to be kind of on the forefront of it.

00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:02.559
But um yeah, now it's it's well understood and it's something that really is exciting a lot of people.

00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:02.960
Yeah.

00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:09.519
And so you the business model is you sell the machine and you also sell products within it.

00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:10.000
Right.

00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:12.559
Initially we're selling batteries.

00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:18.880
Um we're selling batteries, and those can be single cells or multi-cell pack, everything in between.

00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:28.079
Um when you 3D print a cell, we're not constrained to just doing one cell at a time, which is how current batteries are made.

00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:31.840
Uh you know, battery manufacturing now is commoditized, right?

00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:43.119
You make that millions of these cylindrical cells at your cell factory, and then someone has to take, you know, a couple thousand of those cells, put them together to make a module, put a couple modules together to make a pack.

00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:45.119
This is how a Rivian's built, basically.

00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:47.039
So there's like, or a Tesla, right?

00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:54.400
Seven to eight thousand cells on the floor of your car, and each of those has to get connected to the other, can you know, and put in this box.

00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:57.119
It's such a maddening process, you know.

00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:03.840
And my time in automotive, and I I've been wrenching on cars since I was like 16 years old.

00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:06.559
Uh, so I've seen a bunch of gas tanks in my time.

00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:11.199
Gas tanks in a car are any shape that you can fit, right?

00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:12.400
Because they hold a liquid.

00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:14.800
That liquid holds energy, it has a lower heating value.

00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:17.519
I could burn it, it gives off heat, you know.

00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:26.800
This the fact that you can hold uh petroleum energy in in any shape that you want doesn't translate to electrical energy.

00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:36.320
And so when you when you start to make that connection and say, hey, like I wonder if I could store electrical energy in the same shape as my gas tank, what possibilities are there?

00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:38.000
How would devices look?

00:36:38.239 --> 00:36:45.519
Um how how you know how would electrical devices interact with us as humans?

00:36:45.599 --> 00:37:00.239
You know, everything we use from our cell phones, um, I mean, that's not powered, that thing there, but think about your your smart, smart glasses, your your Apple Watch, even your your AirPods, like all these devices are compromised by the batteries used, every single one of them.

00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:02.719
Um so what happens if that's not the case?

00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:06.320
What is it how does that change the world we live in?

00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:07.840
So that's that's what we're pursuing.

00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:12.960
And so you have a headquarters here as well as in Texas, is that correct?

00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:14.960
Yeah, so we're principally located here.

00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:24.400
Um the bulk of our business, uh, business development, commercial activities, um, and the commercial printer design, which is something I'm leading up, is all done here.

00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:33.920
Um, Chris, my co-founder, um, he's well positioned in the set in Central Texas, uh, and that's where we do a lot of our uh nanomaterial and chemistry development.

00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:38.000
So it's really about developing the materials that the printer needs to use.

00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:45.039
They are um I tell people this all the time, we bid off a lot when we started this company, right?

00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:47.039
A very wide tech stack.

00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:54.639
So we're developing a material, multiple materials, that then go into the developed printer to make the brand new batteries, right?

00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:59.599
All three of these things, you could start a company just working on each of those individually.

00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:01.679
Um that's that's our entire tech stack.

00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:17.119
So um the great thing is, you know, when we get towards commercialization, we would have vertically integrated the whole stack and um, you know, we'll have a really good handle on our ability to set the margins and and understand, you know, cost of the goods, et cetera.

00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:20.480
So um we like where we're going because we're accelerating.

00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:28.400
But yeah, when we started, it's it's a daunting task, you know, to say, like, hey, we need to grow the nanomaterials, which we do that we design.

00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:40.480
We have to design the nanomaterial, then we have to design the material that that nanomaterial goes into, then I have to put that into the printer, then I have to put all these different things into that printer, and then that combination plus some software spits out these batteries.

00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:44.079
It's um yeah, it's it's it's complicated, I would say.

00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:45.199
Sounds like it.

00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:45.599
Yeah.

00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:50.719
Uh and so you're fresh off of a$7.1 million round seed round.

00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:51.199
Yep.

00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:53.199
Um very excited to announce that.

00:38:53.360 --> 00:39:00.159
Uh, co-led by Outlander and Harpoon, uh, as well as participation from uh Go Head Ventures.

00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:08.400
Um it's uh yeah, a very exciting time because the really all the stars are aligning for us.

00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:12.639
Um what we're working on is not misunderstood.

00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:16.400
We used to have VCs ask us, like, I don't know why you'd want a 3D printed battery.00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:24.719


I don't know why you'd want a conformal battery, like I just invested in uh a potassium ion battery, like that's my that's why I'm hitching my wagon to.00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:47.760


It now um people are realizing that the limitation in the chemistry side of things and the and the massive investment that goes into it, the way we're looking at the manufacturing of the battery as being the untapped portion of this whole tech stack and fixing and working on that um has really opened up a huge door for us because everyone has this insatiable appetite for more energy on device.00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:50.159


So do you feel like it now is just the right time for it?00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:51.360


It's the right time.00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:58.719


And and um interestingly enough, the applications which need this energy are now really at the at the forefront.00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:00.960


They're they're they're right in our face.00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:09.039


Um there's two places where um it's really hard to fit batteries into devices, uh, or um there's inherent constraints.00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:14.480


And those two places are I would say consumer electronics and wearables, um, like smart glasses.00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:21.599


We all see the smart glasses that are popping out from meta, they all look hideous, uh, no one wants to wear these things, right?00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:24.880


But that's now, that's today in 2026.00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:31.119


Tim Cook, I I think hypothesizes correctly that we're all gonna be wearing some sort of smart glass in the next decade.00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:41.360


For us to get to that point, batteries are gonna have to turn into um different shapes than uh you know a standard pouch cell that sits in the on your temple.00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:49.199


Um they're gonna have to be more elegant, ergonomic, form to your body, uh, and allow energy to be stored in places that you can't you can't currently.00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:58.880


On the other side of that, uh the defense um apparatus is making the drone the de facto weapon of war.00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:03.760


Um drones uh have battery pack just like a car, it's just less cells.00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:12.880


Um and uh because of weight limitations, they're usually really uh significantly hindered by the amount of energy you could store on a on a drone.00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:22.639


Um that could be an FPV drone, that's a tritable, so one-way drone, or something that loiters and does surveillance, everything in between, they all need more energy.00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:27.519


And uh the military has really made that um uh an emphasis of theirs.00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:43.199


And once they saw that, hey, if you give us an un unusually uh shaped volume that they might have stuck cylindrical cells into, you give us a chance to print electrodes or cells that fit into that volume, we can add more energy in that same volume for no weight penalty.00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:50.239


That's a massive change to the way that drone battery packs are made, and and that's why they've taken such a strong hold onto us.00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:56.800


Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I believe I read that you got a$1.5 million contract from the government.00:41:57.199 --> 00:42:03.760


Yeah, in total, um we won a phase one and now a phase two silver from the Air Force um to prototype.00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:08.480


Now we're prototyping um these multi-cell drone packs with industrial partners.00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:23.679


Uh we partnered with uh PDW and now uh another one, which I can't name, um, but both are massive uh defense primes and uh are sending really tons of drones to various uh portions of the military.00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:30.000


Their battery packs are inherently quite limited when you get down to pack level energy density.00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:42.159


And so you'll hear, I mean, we heard it a lot from VCs, but you'll hear in the in the industry, oh, you know, my my cell has X number of watt hours per kilogram, you know, it's a energy density.00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:56.000


When you start taking multiple cells and sticking into a pack and putting welding bus bars and putting insulation, and then you have these casing, your energy density drops like a rock because you're surrounding these little electrical cells with stuff that doesn't hold energy, right?00:42:56.159 --> 00:43:10.320


So what if I could pull all those things that don't hold energy, just pull them out of the assembly, get rid of them, and instead print uh and fill those voids with uh active battery materials, anode and cathode, um, to add more capacity into that shape.00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:18.639


Well, then you get a you get a position where it's like based on the chemistry that you use, you have literally the most amount of energy you could store in that volume.00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:21.920


And that's a significant jump from what's available today.00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:23.760


Um so that's why everyone's very interested.00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:26.159


And so what is the plan with the 7 million?00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:27.440


Uh 7.1.00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:28.639


7.1, yeah.00:43:28.719 --> 00:43:29.119


Thank you.00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:29.760


Yeah.00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:32.639


That that 100k definitely went to our LEVO bill.00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:33.360


Um gosh.00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:34.639


Yeah, founders out there.00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:37.760


Your uh your price round is expensive, just so you know.00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:46.480


Yeah, so 7.1 is really uh focusing on uh two two places, hiring the best and brightest that are experienced in this field.00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:50.480


There's tons of researchers, there's people in industry, 3D printing batteries.00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:51.599


I need to find them.00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:53.119


I want to find all the rare Pokemon.00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:54.719


I want them working on us.00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:59.760


Um and focusing that in on delivering this phase two SIVR.00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:04.800


The money that the government gives us gets us across the valley of death to an extent.00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:27.039


We really need the private funding from industry, from uh from these venture capital firms to fulfill our obligations of that phase two and get to uh the phase three, um, where we can start delivering uh real goods to the Army and or sorry, the Army, Air Force, and uh to the industrial partners that are working on this project with us.00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:30.559


That takes some money and takes a lot of a lot of investment.00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:40.159


I mean, so we're putting that um really the bulk of that money over here the next 18 months is going towards fulfilling this uh this phase two and realizing these multi-cell drone packs.00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:47.119


Aaron Powell So assuming we have maybe some rare Pokemon listening to this, who what is the who is the who are the people you're looking for?00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:49.679


Who what what classifies a rare Pokemon?00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:52.960


So um this is it's interesting.00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:56.000


There's two two places I'm trying to find real experts.00:44:56.159 --> 00:45:00.159


One is in uh the building of a commercial 3D printer.00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:11.119


We've made a machine so far here in Miami that is is at the intersection of semiconductor fab manufacturing and uh 3D printing, industrial 3D printing.00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:19.760


So it has a combination of a lot of the uh the main components there: the controllers, uh the motion system, and even our deposition system.00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:26.320


Finding experts that have worked on that and know how to build in that space, not just like, hey, I project managed it, but like I actually built it.00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:34.320


I either designed it, I know how to spec it, I can do the hand calcs to be able to explain why it is the way it is.00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:39.599


Um so we're putting all that together because our machine is a factory in a box, so it's complicated.00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:45.360


It has atmospheric control, it has print verification, has a fast motion system, and then our deposition.00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:47.280


Uh, and it's it's fully enclosed.00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:50.800


It's meant to be deployable potentially for the Army or the Air Force.00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:52.320


Um, that's one side.00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:53.760


Those I need rare Pokemon there.00:45:53.840 --> 00:46:00.719


And the other side is um uh, you know, people who have 3D printed batteries, either in industry or in academia.00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:05.280


There's a lot here in the US, there's a lot for a lot of foreigners that are working on this.00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:11.519


Um, as you can imagine, China's probably leading in the publishing of 3D printed batteries right now.00:46:11.679 --> 00:46:15.920


Um, I mean, there's there's patents and there's there's new papers coming out every every month.00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:26.719


So not gonna be fishing in the China Pond necessarily because of my current partners, but uh I want to find the best and brightest here in the US working on this this space.00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:34.239


You know, and there's some researchers here at the University of Miami, and I know at FIU they're 3D printing electrodes and working in nanomaterials.00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:36.960


That's all interconnected to exactly what we're doing.00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:38.960


Okay, so if you're a rare Pokemon, reach out.00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:40.000


Please, yeah.00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:41.599


I need to hire many of you.00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:45.360


So um, but you know, we have a good team to start with.00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:55.119


It's what I've learned now is um, you know, as CEO, I I designed, I don't know, probably 50% of the printer that we're currently building.00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:58.159


I can't spend my time in CAD really anymore.00:46:58.239 --> 00:46:59.440


It's not a good use of my time.00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:07.920


I need to be fundraising, finding uh new commercial partners um and customers, and really working with our partners in government.00:47:08.079 --> 00:47:14.159


Um so I need to hire engineers who could do the work as good as I could, you know, if not better, hopefully, yeah, to do that.00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:18.719


So Well, I have to ask, what is it like being back in Miami and building in Miami?00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:20.000


It's it's interesting.00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:21.039


It has its days.00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:25.440


You know, um on the inside, I feel like no one really thinks that we could succeed here.00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:28.800


Um and does that help fuel you or a little bit.00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:30.800


I have a I have a severe chip on my shoulder.00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:41.119


Coming from here, I mean, when I was a young uh young engineer just graduating, I had to leave Miami to do something real purposeful in mechanical engineering because it the jobs didn't exist here.00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:46.320


Coming back, I hope to be able to give those opportunities, you know, these these generations now, these graduates.00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:55.440


But um, yeah, I I mean I proved in my personal career that, yeah, there's there's good engineers that come, there's talent from here in South Florida.00:47:55.679 --> 00:48:13.760


Um I do take I take slight offense to to the fact that that the venture capital space thinks that all the talent pops out of California, and that's the only place to get good engineers or scientists, and also that's the only place to get your funding uh or to build a company.00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:15.679


We're we're finding that's not the case.00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:28.239


We're I would say uh our founding team is will deliberately be working in Texas and Florida uh exclusively, you know, throughout our our startup journey here because we know we could do it here.00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:41.760


And also there's so many benefits, you know, uh the tax breaks and uh really the cost of starting a company here in Florida is so much less, you know, uh than what we'd have to pay in Southern California.00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:44.559


Um and convincing talent to come here is actually not that hard.00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:45.840


Uh that's we're finding.00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:46.159


Yeah.00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:47.119


That's good to hear.00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:47.599


Yeah.00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:52.320


Um, I think the talent, homegrown talent, it needs to show itself a little bit.00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:55.280


Uh that is not their fault, though.00:48:55.519 --> 00:49:01.119


I think the university system needs to um mature, I would say.00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:03.679


We're trying to partner with a lot of local universities.00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:25.840


I find that they're not ready to engage with industry in in such a dynamic fashion that you see a lot out of, let's say, Stanford, uh Cal, MIT, these well-known schools that put uh that make real good industry connections and take their stuff that comes out of labs and they put it into uh into practice very quickly and they do it um with agility.00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:28.239


The university's here, a bit slow.00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:41.519


Um, they really don't know what that looks like, but it shows it it can have a tremendous benefit if the whole ecosystem in South Florida just makes a concerted effort to go in one direction, which is really up, I guess.00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:42.719


You know, yeah.00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:46.000


If academia, if you're listening, there's some tips.00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:46.800


Yeah.00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:52.079


Um and I think the funders here need to uh get a little more experience too.00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:56.639


You know, um the VCs, the ones that are base here, the small funds.00:49:56.880 --> 00:50:10.960


When we when I pitched them, and I I trust me, I went to everyone here, um, I probably pitched locally at least 20 VCs, you know, and I didn't I don't think I got a second meeting out of a single single firm here in South Florida.00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:12.800


To me, it's not it's not all their fault.00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:15.119


I'm not gonna say, you know, like, hey, you passed this up.00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:27.760


I don't think that they uh the VCs that are are let's say not tier ones that are based here, know what they were looking at if I would have showed it to them or could theorize what this how big it could be, the material.00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:42.000


And uh the ones who do are I mean, San Francisco, uh New York, these firms, when I tell them what I'm working on and I explain to them, they have the scientific background to be able to be like, yep, that's that's going here.00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:47.119


I see where that that works, I see the applications, I see who your customer base is, I know what your TAM looks like.00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:49.599


It I don't even have to explain it to most of them.00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:52.239


But the ones here wouldn't know where to start.00:50:52.480 --> 00:51:02.000


And I that disappoints me a little bit because I'd love to say that we're home funded, um, but we're definitely homegrown, you know, here in the south.00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:03.840


And uh we'll continue to do that.00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:06.000


So it's just about educating.00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:10.000


It's a bit bit like uh salmon swimming swimming up the river at times, I think.00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:15.679


Sounds like we've got some work to do, but excited that you're building here.00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:37.840


Yeah, I hope to be able to showcase it um, you know, as we take our next step and get towards uh series A, that people can see a lot of uh purposeful um technology development here in South Florida and not not vaporware, uh, you know, uh not NFTs uh or or uh you know fringe crypto coins, like actual stuff that's gonna change the world.00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:42.079


Um it they that can be developed here in South Florida, and I think it is.00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:53.519


Um you know, I see uh what ExoWat is doing, and I I'm I'm a fond uh fan of uh Hanan and I I like the work that they're doing there and and uh that's right down the street from me.00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:56.320


And that's real, real hard, hard tech.00:51:56.559 --> 00:51:58.960


And uh just up the road, Eros Energy as well.00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:05.519


Like these are groups that are they're building tangible, tangible things that are gonna have a huge impact on our lives.00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:07.679


Um and I'm sure there's tons of others.00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:09.199


I just I'm not seeing you.00:52:09.280 --> 00:52:11.440


I think I need you I need them to be more visible.00:52:11.599 --> 00:52:15.039


So that's where the ecosystem can come and kind of prop these new companies up.00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:17.519


Uh so closing, two questions.00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:18.079


Okay.00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:20.800


What is something you're working on as a founder?00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:23.599


And what is one piece of advice you'd give a fellow founder?00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:31.440


What I'm working on as a founder, uh, I'm working on rounding my edges.00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:32.400


Yeah.00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:37.039


I came from an industry where there was no no excuses.00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:48.960


Um in really England, I would say Formula One might have had a an impact on me uh to to make me just in a way a bit ruthless in the in the way that I want output.00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:56.159


Just because I was able I saw what happens when people stop giving excuses and and they just make it happen.00:52:56.400 --> 00:53:00.800


Um and it's really, really powerful when a group can get together and make a concerned effort.00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:07.199


And you know, in our case, it was making a car that went 220 miles an hour and and do that.00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:09.840


But so I see I see what it looks like at the top.00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:16.480


When you're really sharp and you can just be very militant in the way that you manage people, because I was one of those people.00:53:16.719 --> 00:53:28.480


Um I realize it doesn't work uh in other industries, and it's allowed me time to kind of learn uh, you know, that that not everyone we're not a monolith.00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:37.679


And like the people that work for me or work with me are um very they come from different walks of life and they work at different paces and they have different things that excite them.00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:49.599


And I think a good CEO is is kind of learning um how to manage, you know, those A players, the B players, the C players, and then try to push everyone up to be better in their in their little space.00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:55.199


So um that comes with a little bit of more massaging and and speaking differently to people.00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:57.119


Uh so I'm learning that.00:53:57.280 --> 00:53:59.599


Uh and you're gonna have to remind me of the second question.00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:02.800


What would be a piece of advice you'd give another founder?00:54:03.280 --> 00:54:18.480


I think early on, spending a real good amount of time understanding your market, um we did a unit economic study just uh kind of behind the curtain, uh probably Jan or Feb 2024.00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:43.119


I took with uh a friend of mine who's kind of acting as our fractional CFO now, um I took probably a month working on a very, very detailed unit economic study, all the way down from the raw material we were purchasing, how we were synthesizing, how we were developing it, uh the cost of the machine, how many batteries we thought the machine could put out, uh, all the way, you know, to total end output.00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:48.000


And once we did this map, this study, it's a very detailed study, and this was pre-seed.00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:50.559


You know, most companies don't even think about this stuff at pre-seed.00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:59.920


We we started to see what it would take for us to get to a profitable company, what our margins could be, and um how big this could get, right?00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:05.440


Once I had that picture and I could show that to the VC firms, everything just clicked.00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:10.159


They were like, oh, these guys actually took some time to really look at it.00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:12.480


This isn't some goofy idea.00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:22.320


Um, you know, that this is something where they they took a lot of time, they know the materials, they know their ins and outs, and they could see, you know, what our our TAM could look like basically.00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:24.559


Um, that made a huge difference.00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:35.199


And I would recommend, if you can as a founder, early do it as early as possible, but really put a good amount of effort towards it because it'll tell you a couple things um very quickly.00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:36.960


It might not be a viable solution.00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:47.679


It and I saw this, I'm not sure if I I agree with what they did as a company, but there was a um, I forget the name of the company, but they put out a product called Cellvision.00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:51.679


Um it was a battery company, I think, out of out of Chicago.00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:57.760


They raised uh a seed round, it's a year ago now, raised a seed round and gave all the money back.00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:04.559


And they gave it back after a month because they did a big Excel spreadsheet and it basically told them that their solution was not economically viable.00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:07.280


And they literally just gave all the money back to the VCs.00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:10.480


And I would have been like, okay, well, could we adjust this?00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:11.280


Could we pivot?00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:16.320


Could we work towards a different output that might be economically uh viable?00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:18.000


Um, maybe a different chemistry.00:56:18.079 --> 00:56:22.639


It was a can it was a battery chemistry company, but they were just like, no, this doesn't work, give the money back.00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:23.920


Yeah.00:56:24.159 --> 00:56:29.920


So the quicker you figure that out, the the better that you can sleep a night and go raise money.00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:34.800


And you know, we did that and it really changed our trajectory.00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:39.440


Um, it wasn't throwing spaghetti at the wall anymore, it was like a real concerted effort.00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:46.960


We knew where we were going, we could back up and verify, uh, especially when it came to like key constituents, like our nanowires that we grow.00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:51.360


Once we started showing, like, hey, our cost for our nanowires is actually matching what we projected.00:56:51.599 --> 00:57:00.400


That's the most expensive part of our battery slurries, okay, well, if we scale up, if I buy more of this or more of that, the cost is gonna continue to drop.00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:02.559


We're gonna get exactly where we think we need to be.00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:06.239


So I I know that that was a right, uh our projection was correct there.00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:17.360


That's really exciting because then you can go and start pitching the company with like real conviction like this is where this is how much a battery could cost now, this is how much it's gonna cost two years, five years, ten years from now.00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:20.000


Um, that's you know, that's really powerful.00:57:20.159 --> 00:57:21.360


So I would say work on that.00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:23.199


Do the math, I guess, early.00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:25.280


Hopefully before you raise the speed.00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:27.440


Yeah, RIP Excel vision.00:57:27.599 --> 00:57:27.679


Yeah.00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:28.800


But thank you so much.00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:29.679


This is incredible.00:57:29.840 --> 00:57:34.159


It's so great to have you building in Miami, and we're excited to see where material goes.00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:35.360


Thank you so much.00:57:35.440 --> 00:57:36.719


Uh I do appreciate it.00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:38.880


And uh yeah, I guess watch the space.00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:39.760


So awesome.00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:41.039


And Pokemon Reach up.00:57:41.199 --> 00:57:41.760


Yeah, yeah, please.00:57:41.840 --> 00:57:42.239


Pokemon.